tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post4589577412491134512..comments2023-11-05T02:01:53.847-06:00Comments on Antagony & Ecstasy: TOLKIEN ON FILM: "I WILL TAKE THE RING, " HE SAID, "THOUGH I DO NOT KNOW THE WAY."Timhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09491952893581644049noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-74726776185188447572012-12-10T10:29:22.457-06:002012-12-10T10:29:22.457-06:00The Concerning Hobbits portion is my favorite thin...The Concerning Hobbits portion is my favorite thing about the entire trilogy. Sets up the stakes rather than jumping in pell-mell, and gives us a good moment to rest after the beginning action-packed history lesson. Also, Shore's theme used during the section is wonderful, a light, playful jig with pipe and fiddle that perfectly captures the down-home appeal of the Shire and lives of its residents. Concerning Hobbits makes me want to <i>live</i> in the Shire, and its absence from the theatrical cut adds to that film's feeling of being rushed.Andrew Testermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17636448677366233823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-595759090605688452012-12-09T23:28:12.702-06:002012-12-09T23:28:12.702-06:00Rick- I have to disagree on one point: I think the...Rick- I have to disagree on one point: I think there are definitely distinct character themes, or at least "subject matter" themes. The lack of decent action cues is, I fully agree, a huge problem in all three movies. I don't have a <i>huge</i> amount of use for him, but I've liked his work with Cronenberg quite a lot.<br /><br />Stephen- I'm certainly not trying to say that the movies are bad - I love the first two <i>Star Wars</i> pictures. But there's not one among them that is nearly flawless enough to earn the sort of uninflected praise that both franchises get reflexively on the internet. Which is something that has irritated me ever since I started to notice how unbelievably bad George Lucas is at dialogue.<br /><br />Mr. Blackwell- I've always assumed that was the result of trying to figure out the way to actually shoot the tricky forced perspective, which was such a huge technological leap that works about 80% of the time on DVD (I remember it working better in theaters). I'm inclined to say this one has the least interesting cinematography of the three, in fact, though perhaps the most complex overall.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09491952893581644049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-46867453042915186582012-12-09T22:49:12.852-06:002012-12-09T22:49:12.852-06:00I think Fellowship is probably my favourite of the...I think Fellowship is probably my favourite of the LOTR trilogy, but I can't help but feel that the cinematography in this one is exceedingly... flat? I'm thinking of a shot in the early prologue where Sauron is holding up his ring hand in front of a bunch of fire and there's no depth to the shot at all - it looks like a cardboard cutout in front of cardboard background. Plus, there's that "special effect" shot of Frodo waking up in Rivendell while Hugo Weaving drifts into view over a stuttery shot of a roof that wouldn't be out of place on a SyFy original show.<br /><br />That said, I do feel like this one has the most "small" moments, and I agree with you about the extended cut - this is certainly the film that benefits the most from that treatment. For my money, Two Towers and Return of the King get WAY too draggy in the extended versions. Even if this movie does kind of miss the spirit of Tolkien even while it faithfully adapts a good chunk of it, I still am quite the sucker for this level of spectacle in the end.<br /><br />(Also, gotta throw my hat into the ring and agree with most people here about the score. That is one pretty damned hummable soundtrack, something I can't really discount.)Mr. Blackwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08656702134779980724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-74089486080905695602012-12-09T22:10:17.412-06:002012-12-09T22:10:17.412-06:00" I will even agree with that most august com..." I will even agree with that most august comparison, that it is the Star Wars of the 2000s: like that film series, The Lord of the Rings is spectacular and grand if you give in to it, but apply even a little bit of critical thinking, and boy, do the flaws start to show up in force. "<br /><br />Ok, I don't mean this *too* critically, I love your writing, you're perfectly free to dislike whatever you want about these movies, I agree (to a milder extant) with most of your criticisms, BUT: By saying "apply even a little bit of critical thinking" you sure are asking for it. Come now, with both Star Wars and LOTR, don't you think the legions of fans out there feverishly discussing them do apply critical thinking when looking at the films? And don't you think the many critics who have praised them to the high heavens have applied critical thinking in their evaluations? I have certainly thought about these films a great deal, and found flaws and things that irritate me to be sure, but I still love them to a ridiculous degree. And to suggest that neither Star Wars nor LOTR can hold up to criticism--well, I resent that.<br /><br />Rant over. Anyway.<br /><br />I really love the scores. I think they're fantastic and memorable and pretty unique on a lot of levels--Shore uses a million different instruments and styles throughout the trilogy, and they all stand up to repeat listening on CD. So there.StephenMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16588260639227694557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-31480791503690224502012-12-09T21:45:48.085-06:002012-12-09T21:45:48.085-06:00Not a fan of Howard Shore in general, and these sc...Not a fan of Howard Shore in general, and these scores in particular. For me, the music overall just seems....snoozy. Just a bunch of generic "heroic fantasy" themes without much personality, played willy nilly over scenes randomly. At least that's how it seems watching the movies. As if he barely watched the films before composing. Funny you bring up Williams. Whatever criticisms one has of Williams work, IMO LOTR could have used what he does in his sleep- strong character themes and bold, distinctive action cues. <br />There are only a few times I can think of where the music makes any impression- the moody final shot of TTT, the climactic confrontation inside Mount Doom, a handful of others. I don't know. Just not much of a fan. When everything else in these movies feels DESIGNED, thought about and fussed over, the music just has a "tossed off" feel, merely "good enough".<br /><br />Disclosure- I feel exactly the same way about his score for "Hugo"- too much music (over nearly every scene) with only a few, distinctive melodies orchestrated over and over into a blanket of sameness. Meh.RickRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17060339578835099120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-32118670228859973712012-12-09T21:08:26.954-06:002012-12-09T21:08:26.954-06:00Hayley- That scene is way high up on my list, too....Hayley- That scene is way high up on my list, too. Maybe even my favorite. I agree with you that FOTR looks the most realistic, and I plan to get into that as I review the others.<br /><br />Der Fuhrer- Thanks for such a deep comment!<br /><br />1. I believe Jackson said at one point that the idea behind the theatrical cuts was to keep the pace high and make sure the movies were as entertaining as humanly possible. So you have a good point. "An adaptation of an anti-war epic, and not Dungeons and Dragons" is an idea I shall most certainly be turning to myself.<br /><br />2. I don't even dislike the score, but I meant something <i>extremely</i> specific by "knock-off", which is that the main "fellowship" motif is, to my, not even trying to hide its debt to Siegfried's Theme from the Ring cycle. Which, insofar as it might be a deliberate homage to the myth that gave Tolkien most of his ideas to start with, isn't half bad. I do like the score in TT better, as I'll be getting to shortly.<br /><br />3. Same. Exact. Shot. And oh, how I will have words for Mr. Jackson's helicopter addiction.<br /><br />4. Definitely true. I was saving up my thoughts for that subject around the figure of Gollum, but by and large, whatever doesn't work, already didn't work in 2001, and if anything, there are things like the Wargs in the second film that I like considerably more now than I did at the time.<br /><br />5. No, unfortunately I still like it enough to give it a positive, though its unabashedly my least favorite of the three.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09491952893581644049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-8965885845387101382012-12-09T15:57:06.709-06:002012-12-09T15:57:06.709-06:00Yay!
1. The editing for me is a mixed bag really....Yay!<br /><br />1. The editing for me is a mixed bag really. Yeah, entire journeys across hundreds and hundreds of miles seem to take place in three days (the whole Gandalf investigation is a particular egregious example). But, I think the manic editing does work to an extent in that it keeps the story moving on and keeping it within 3 hours, even though it does go against the spirit of the books (it's the details that matter, not the "get from point A to point B" plot). Sure, it's more breadth than depth (and we have no idea why Legolas is there for the entire trilogy at all aside from stating the bleeding fucking obvious), but this sort of thing seems to fit with Peter Jackson's style of making the movies, in which I don't think he's all that aware that he's making an adaptation of an anti-war epic, and not Dungeons and Dragons.<br /><br />2. I'm a little sad that you sort-of dismissed Howard Shore's score as a "robust knock-off of John Williams stealing from Richard Wagner". I mean, it's not really his fault (or Williams' or Wagner's) that the <i>leitmotif</i> is a pretty nifty technique when it comes to underscoring stories of <b><i>GREAT SWEEPING EPICNESS</i></b> (Star Wars, Tristan und Isolde etc.), or that strings and brass and choirs and going AAAAHHHH sound really awesome. I think it worked gangbusters for the trilogy, the second best thing behind the production design. The score establishes identities and themes for virtually everything while pouring all the bombast to match Jackson's aesthetic of "oh my god OH MY GOD <b>OH. MY. GOD.</b>" Now excuse me, I need to hug my Complete Recordings set real tight.<br /><br />3. That said, glad that you didn't take too well to the cinematography either. I'm no fan of that tracking shot (I hope we're both thinking of the same one, is it the one where the camera dollies very quickly into the room and does a half circle around Saruman as he goes "Sauron's forces are already on the move"? If so, man, that shot sucked.) And if anything, the cinematography got even <i>worse</i> as the trilogy went on. Can't wait for you for your next review, The Lord of the Rings: The Fucking Helicopter Shots.<br /><br />4. Can't add to anything positive that you've said already in terms of production design and casting. But, I might add that when re-watching this one early this year, I was half-expecting for the visual effects to age horribly, and to my surprise it didn't. Sure, the green screen work at Khazad-dum look pretty shoddy-looking now, but that Balrog OMG. <br /><br />5. I not-so-secretly wish that your upcoming Return of the King review will appear as Rotten on RT, because if there is a group of people who will not take kindly to criticisms of cinematography more than Trekkies, it's LOTR fans.Atrophyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12343178335810325537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-34897486397831386632012-12-09T15:53:26.621-06:002012-12-09T15:53:26.621-06:00Only wanted to add two things.
To build off your ...Only wanted to add two things.<br /><br />To build off your observation that the movie needed some "breathing room," I felt the best scene in the movie was the conversation in the mines where Gandalf tells Frodo, "All we can decide is what to do with the time given us..." A scene that is simultaneously (with an early cross-cut to Gollum) a foreshadowing , an ominous calm before the storm, a character moment and a thematic summary of the book all in one. For all the bombastic moments yet to come in this series, these small, quotidian moments that were interspersed throughout were the highlights for me. <br /><br />Second, the Fellowship stands out as the most realistic looking of the three, with a heavy emphasis on real locations, vistas and natural lighting. Contrast the final battle in this film, shot in an autumnal twilight of a forest, with the final battle in Return of the King, which had that artificial sky overhanging everything, and you can see how the film's look morphed into a CGI plastic sheen as the series moved on. To this day, I still argue with myself whether this was out of necessity (Jackson just couldn't find real locations to his liking), or if Jackson just went SFX happy...hayleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01203127598513280855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-3642234643315285592012-12-09T15:51:34.477-06:002012-12-09T15:51:34.477-06:00Normally I don't mean to be a stickler for thi...Normally I don't mean to be a stickler for this sort of thing, but I don't think you really meant that "Frodo's ring turns out to be a totem of unspeakable, ancient detail," unless you were admiring the craftsmanship of the ring.Willhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14856054226079274945noreply@blogger.com