tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post5677365829263684564..comments2023-11-05T02:01:53.847-06:00Comments on Antagony & Ecstasy: TOLKIEN ON FILM: I AM GLAD YOU ARE HERE WITH ME. HERE AT THE END OF ALL THINGS.Timhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09491952893581644049noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-48077190785186725092013-01-06T15:23:18.778-06:002013-01-06T15:23:18.778-06:00Not much to add to the above thousands of words th...Not much to add to the above thousands of words that would sound intelligent, but I'm just curious if any of you have read "The last Ring-bearer", a russian novel depicting Mordor as the good guys.<br />I haven't read it myself but always was intrigued by the concept.<br /><br />Also, Tim, this is as good a place as any for the yearly reminder that some of us probably still are looking forward to your completion of the HP book reviews, and the long-coming Pratchett essay :)Vianneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10456600888652409290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-9389971521742913602012-12-18T15:00:33.845-06:002012-12-18T15:00:33.845-06:00I liked the Smeagol origin story, too, but I think...I liked the Smeagol origin story, too, but I think it was a mistake to have "normal" Smeagol speak in his Gollum voice from the beginning. The Gollum voice should have been something he acquired throughout the years.Wild Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08243331039670327167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-15496774969940773062012-12-17T08:18:28.847-06:002012-12-17T08:18:28.847-06:00The honest truth is that having sat through it the...The honest truth is that having sat through it the first time in theater, I decided there is no redeeming reason to sit through the last 22 minutes when I've re-watched it. It is so hollow, tone deaf, and utterly misconstrued from the source material that it really doesn't merit a 2nd viewing. I am generally not one for skipping over film scenes I don't like, but in this case, I like the move much better if I just "pretend" it ends 22 minutes early.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08377504727468770408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-15066204288858785162012-12-17T04:13:47.715-06:002012-12-17T04:13:47.715-06:00I've clearly missed something after reading Re...I've clearly missed something after reading Return of the King twice, cos I've always hated the Scouring of the Shire and frankly welcomed its absence from the film. To me it's like "good Christ, the story ended a hundred pages ago, why doesn't Tolkien know where to stop"; if Jackson missed the point of it, then I've been missing it for a couple of decades too...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-66969073441739356112012-12-16T22:13:53.157-06:002012-12-16T22:13:53.157-06:00Brian- Happily, I knew well in advance that the Sc...Brian- Happily, I knew well in advance that the Scouring was cut, so at least I wasn't waiting for it. But it was still bitter when it showed up.<br /><br />A good point about Merry and Pippin falling into the plot; it annoys me so much when it happens, but then there are so many hours of movie after that, I tend to forget.<br /><br />Rick- In the movies, that's exactly what the towers are, and Tolkien himself had dubious feelings about the tower in any place.<br /><br />Totally right about the Fall of Sméagol scene. One of the best parts of <i>ROTK</i>, and one I would have mentioned, but the piece was already getting out of hand.<br /><br />The.Watcher- Christopher Tolkien, the author's youngest son and executor, has made it extremely clear that he dislikes Jackson's first trilogy very much and would have prevented <i>The Hobbit</i> if he had any legal leg to stand on. Hard to say what his own heirs will do after he dies (and he is not young), but I get the impression that they'll go along with his final request on the matter.<br /><br />DerFuhrer- The climax is, for sure, some great editing, especially after such a lot of sort of wobbly, aimless cross-cutting. And I'll concede that the Sam scene you mention is easily my favorite moment in Astin's entire performance.<br /><br />Malte- Production design was one of those things I just didn't have energy for, in the end. But it's certainly a great part of the whole, maybe even the greatest.<br /><br />Too-Ticki- Not to mention, the <i>Harry Potter</i> epilogue is quite possibly the worst passage in the entire seven-book series, and the movie manages to make it even worse.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09491952893581644049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-33106897957885273962012-12-16T15:57:45.900-06:002012-12-16T15:57:45.900-06:00*22 minute*22 minuteToo-Tickiihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12444874222313601713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-53460396951661596452012-12-16T13:16:19.022-06:002012-12-16T13:16:19.022-06:00Other than the pretty much unfixable poor decision...Other than the pretty much unfixable poor decision that is the pillow fight, it's definitely the editing that breaks the closing sequence. It's the ending for the entire trilogy, and I can understand closing out 9 hours of story with a 22 denouement. There's just no reason for those 22 minutes to crawl and trudge on like they do.<br /><br />I'd take it over Harry Potter's "ah voldemort is dead, quick, time to fuck off to the epilogue" though.Too-Tickiihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12444874222313601713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-66252726940033768652012-12-16T07:56:12.161-06:002012-12-16T07:56:12.161-06:00Rick, I'm right with you on the opening - what...Rick, I'm right with you on the opening - what an improvement over the admittedly cool-looking non-beginning of <i>The Two Towers</i> and the well-done-but-still infodump in <i>Fellowship</i>.<br /><br />I think Tim's review gets right to the heart of why the films don't sit quite right with me, but I wish more ink had been spilt on the production design, and all the visual homages to classic genre cinema (both <i>The Return of the King</i> and <i>King Kong</i> are full of references to <i>7th Voyage of Sinbad</i>). It's weird: Jackson profoundly loved what he was doing, but he didn't get Tolkien <i>at all</i>.Maltehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04162595103855533887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-51755924349801518082012-12-16T07:54:17.907-06:002012-12-16T07:54:17.907-06:001. To start off with, I love the design of Minas M...1. To start off with, I <i>love</i> the design of Minas Morgul. It's basically a smaller version of Minas Tirith, a white fortress with these garish jagged black plates that symbolise anything Mordor-ian stuck to them. And since biophosphorescent green is one of the most sickly colours I could think of, it really does lend well to the eerie look of the place. But, I suppose we'll have to disagree on this point.<br /><br />2. I'll agree that Sean Astin is not the best member of the cast, but I'll go on to say that his scenes on the slopes of Mount Doom and in the Cracks of Doom are nigh unimprovable in my opinion. I never believed that he was the character more in the entire trilogy than when he gives the line reading for "I can't carry it for you but I can carry you!"<br /><br />3. Having watched the previous two movies and watched enough behind-the-scenes material to know exactly how far off the mark Jackson is when it comes to the theme of Tolkien's work, I was already anticipating the cutting of the Scouring of the Shire, and making the Mount Doom/Black Gate sequence the climax of the entire trilogy. He said he did not want two climaxes for the movie, which indicates he missed the point. That aside, that climax really is one of the best-edited sequences of the series, cross-cutting between the two parties to emphasize the fatigue of the good guys and later on, their desperation. Meanwhile, Howard Shore goes crazy and borrows liberally from Wagner and it's all awesome.<br /><br />4. So, it seems fitting to follow that up with the worst-edited sequence of the trilogy. We can all agree that it is the editing which kills the ending sequence. If we could speed up the slow-mo stuff, make the tickle fight less embarrassing for everyone involved, take out the fly-by/map stuff and take out the fucking fade-to-whites/blacks, and we will still have an overly long ending sequence, albeit a less annoying one.<br /><br />5. So, yeah, we still agree on the main points and instead of a meditation of the horrors of war, we have three perfectly fine fantasy movies that bring in the excess of spectacle unlike anything we have ever seen to date and possibly will never see again in our lifetimes.<br /><br />And that even includes the Hobbit movies. Goddammit.Atrophyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12343178335810325537noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-15107743245356294562012-12-16T06:45:52.077-06:002012-12-16T06:45:52.077-06:00Tim, how do you know about the estate's wishes...Tim, how do you know about the estate's wishes to not give/sell those two sources to Jackson? Have they publicly said as such? <br /><br />I ask because those movies make a lot of money, and so it will be kinda weird if the estate says no. Especially because the LOTR movies (and Hobbit, if moviegoers' opinions of it are any indication) are typically very beloved and treasured within the fan communities, so there's no real reason for them to deny Wingnut 10 more films.The.Watcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06746957245529915320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-36526084641748931322012-12-16T04:42:50.604-06:002012-12-16T04:42:50.604-06:00Not having read the books, I can't speak to ho...Not having read the books, I can't speak to how the movies function as adaptations. Going by the films, I always thought the two towers referred to the twin edifices in Eisengard and Mordor.<br /><br />My favorite structural choice in RotK was to put Smeagol's "origin story" at the beginning. It gives a great, emotional epic feel to go along with all the visual epicness on display, though it does come dangerously close to making the film, and perhaps the entire trilogy, Smeagol's story. Still, I thought starting the movie with that was pretty great. I can't remember whose idea that was, but I seem to remember it wasn't Jackson's original idea to put it there.<br /><br />I'll disagree with you about Sean Astin. I think he is good to great throughout, and never better than in the climactic scene inside Mount Doom. I was on the edge of my seat, and he brought absolutely the right emotional intensity to the scene.<br /><br />As far as the length goes- yeah, it is one long-ass movie for sure. And leaving out the Scouring of the Shire sounds like a bad choice. Perhaps RotK could have been served by being split into two films with more reasonable running times. But in 2003, splitting the final book in a series into two movies wasn't yet A Thing.RickRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17060339578835099120noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-37223278762951055242012-12-16T03:31:10.069-06:002012-12-16T03:31:10.069-06:00I remember watching it in the theater (having arri...I remember watching it in the theater (having arrived just before show time opening weekend, sitting off to the side in the front row. Head turned for 3 and half hours. So painful) and being just absolutely stunned and pissed when they got back to the shire and it was just... Fine. Pristine. Home. Holy hell, you missed the whole fucking point, Peter!<br /><br />I got over it over time, and I do enjoy all three movies a lot. But the end will never sit right with me, for much the reasons you laid out. The journey changes everything, Peter. EVERYTHING. Not just you, but your home as well. We see that to a much smaller (and funnier) extent when Bilbo returned home in The Hobbit to find that he had been declared dead, but here it's such an important point, and it's just gone.<br /><br />The other thing that will always bother me about the films is the way Merry and Pippen just kind of accidentally wound up on the journey, rather than having decided right from the start that they would stand by their friend, no matter what. I think they were robbed of so much richness in order to make them comedic sidekicks.<br /><br />Still, judging the films as films, and not adaptations, I like them. Other than the end of ROTK, cause holy fuck, without the Scouring, that thing just goes nowhere, and spends forever getting there.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04546972990126033036noreply@blogger.com