tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post7389274182407056386..comments2023-11-05T02:01:53.847-06:00Comments on Antagony & Ecstasy: TEN YEARS A SPYTimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09491952893581644049noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-4192186291573277982013-01-16T21:13:07.896-06:002013-01-16T21:13:07.896-06:00Concerning the production of the film prior to the...Concerning the production of the film prior to the raid, Bigelow herself states in a New Yorker Talk of the Town article by Dexter Filkins (author of The Forever War) that she and Boal scrapped the film they were doing about how Bin Laden couldn't be found and wrote an entirely new screenplay with additional interviews, etc. <br /><br />Tim, I think you should write that political essay! Humorless scold or not, it can be surprising what comes out of oneself in a polemic. A different writing challenge at the least. <br /><br />As far as cinematic journalism, this falls far below par and as commentators have mentioned, including the journalist Jane Mayer (some might say 'expert' on U.S.-CIA torture) once again in the New Yorker, produces scenes that do not represent the dissent about torture & techniques expressed by certain CIA officers, FBI officers and others ON SITE. Actions that provided actual drama, conflict, etc. could have made the film even more dynamic.<br /><br />BUT, lastly, there has been near silence on the film's--and the raid's--main assumption: that the assassination of someone ordered by a state is moral or legal. The fact that it broke international law and avoided addressing deep ethical human questions about revenge and state power has rarely been discussed in reviews and criticisms. <br /><br />Perhaps a discussion will appear from you, sir, as gradually Academy folks like Clennon call for other voters to boycott the film for Best Picture & all awards. They are awards after all, certainly worth less (ethically) than giving the strong, false impressions that torture leads to accurate intelligence OR is worth doing at all despite whatever ends it achieves.<br /><br />Lastly, as it is your blog & rating, you certainly have the ability to rate something from an aesthetic, fictional point of view & then create a secondary rating of ?/10 for its direct claim at the beginning of the film as "Based on First Hand Accounts of Actual Events"--certainly a journalistic teaser if any existed.<br /><br />Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04750081831551743100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-17163452674510446412013-01-16T16:46:33.692-06:002013-01-16T16:46:33.692-06:00Haha, that's true, and totally understandable....Haha, that's true, and totally understandable. I'll go hunting for controversy somewhere else, I'm sure it's not hard to find.<br /><br />Looking forward to hearing whether or not we should go see Gangster Squad! And the Oscars, as always, whew. Thanks always for your insightful analyses!Erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16854847604020842811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-55844223207206415662013-01-16T12:31:00.805-06:002013-01-16T12:31:00.805-06:00Some very good thoughts, thanks for sharing.
I mu...Some very good thoughts, thanks for sharing.<br /><br />I must be honest: I think I am likely to be too much of a chicken to actually write that political essay. I feel like enough has been spent on that topic out in the greater internets, and I know I'd come down on the "humorless scold" side of the debate, and I just don't know that I'm up for that right now. But it's certainly a possibility still, Lord knows the conversation won't be going away prior to the Oscars...Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09491952893581644049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-66072203447961240242013-01-16T08:22:50.721-06:002013-01-16T08:22:50.721-06:00Saw this last night - woo wide release - and am al...Saw this last night - woo wide release - and am also struggling to sift out its politics, having avoided most of the dialogue surrounding it last month.<br /><br />It certainly is apolitical, and I feel that its disengagement is a very purposeful choice to bring us closer to Maya. More ambitiously, I think that its apolitics a comment on the political neutrality of the executive branch bureaucracy in general, and how that neutrality is absolutely necessary to its function. Government workers at State, DoD, Treasury, and such are notorious for their ability to swallow personal politics in favor of getting the job done - a necessary survival mechanism when your boss is Bush one day, Obama the next, and who knows after that. I love the scene in ZDT when Maya and her cohorts of the hour are discussing strategy and Obama appears on the news in the background, stuttering that "America does not torture." The characters look at the TV for a moment and then return to their conversation, entirely without comment. They're so far removed from politics that it's not even worth thinking about. The film acknowledges that this controversy exists, but only somewhere else.<br /><br />Maya is the best at it all. She's the ideal bureaucrat. An offhand remark that Pakistan is "pretty fucked up" at the beginning is the only time she ever comes close to verbalizing judgment on anything, anywhere, other than other peoples' getting in the way of her doing her job. The film even denies the audience the easy, politically-charged image of Bin Laden's face, choosing instead to focus completely on Maya's reaction as she opens the body bag. <br /><br />ZDT is trying to keep us cemented in Maya's PoV for the duration, and in order to succeed at that it has to be apolitical. Because Maya has to be apolitical.<br /><br />This reading makes the long raid sequence at the end a little problematic, because like you said it completely leaves Maya's PoV, and that's something I'm still thinking about. Maybe Bigelow just wanted to toss in some really top-notch military thriller stuff. Because, man, I was thrilled.<br /><br />In any case, I hope you do follow through with that discussion of ZDT's politics you promised in your first paragraph. I'd like to hear your opinions.Erikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16854847604020842811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-8938087252095391042012-12-21T07:31:04.470-06:002012-12-21T07:31:04.470-06:00Chris- Ooh, hard call. I'd say that if The Hur...Chris- Ooh, hard call. I'd say that if <i>The Hurt Locker</i> turned your stomach, this one probably will too. In particular, the ending raid sequence would be a horrible trial.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09491952893581644049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-73867155936772338132012-12-20T22:26:55.504-06:002012-12-20T22:26:55.504-06:00Tim, politics aside, you mention the handheld styl...Tim, politics aside, you mention the handheld style that was used in The Hurt Locker. Will those of us whose inner ears can't handle the whole shakycam thing without turning green and breaking into a cold sweat be able to manage this one? I really want to see it, but don't want to be asking for my money back 20 minutes into it. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-50596404890000682392012-12-20T12:35:33.696-06:002012-12-20T12:35:33.696-06:00Yes..but they still then drew on the real life eve...Yes..but they still then drew on the real life events when completing the film, so all the criticisms about its apoloticism remain valid.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04634087887519608773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-6657194763448712292012-12-20T04:09:26.882-06:002012-12-20T04:09:26.882-06:00While I obviously can't comment on the film...While I obviously can't comment on the film's political stance or lack thereof, I do think that there's one major roadblock to saying it represents American jingoistic triumphalism, and it's the same one to saying The Dark Knight Rises was playing on the Occupy Wall Street movement. As Bob Chipman has emphatically and repeatedly pointed out over the last several months (http://moviebob.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/zero-dark-thirty-first-trailer.html), Zero Dark Thirty was in production before the raid on Bin Laden's compound. Thrash Til' Deathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01741491764040608276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-55425612252945519832012-12-20T03:49:59.965-06:002012-12-20T03:49:59.965-06:00As someone with very similar political views, and ...As someone with very similar political views, and views on torture, and being very worried this movie is going to argue that "torture is why Bin Laden is dead" and things like that, let me just say...<br /><br />I fucking hate you for having already seen this. Bastard. :)Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04546972990126033036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-50830840613486334152012-12-19T23:52:11.113-06:002012-12-19T23:52:11.113-06:00No qualms about the review- you did a great job of...No qualms about the review- you did a great job of pointing out the reservations you had and then diving into how it works on it's own terms as a piece of cinema. Just voicing my thoughts on the critical reaction to it so far. I'm sure we'll all get to discuss it at great length when it's nominated for all the oscars.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04634087887519608773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-34993834354223622992012-12-19T23:13:50.141-06:002012-12-19T23:13:50.141-06:00Jeremy- My big concern with the film was that I my...Jeremy- My big concern with the film was that I my take on THL was "good, nowhere near great", and ZDT had assuaged that fear in barely any time at all. So I think you're safe.<br /><br />KingKubrick- I can't say that it reads as jingoism or propaganda on its own merits as a narrative - no "rah rah" at all, even for a second - but the real-world context of the filmmaking makes it all uncomfortably free of nuance or critical thought. Which is why I prefaced my review the way I did - I wasn't going to ever get a review out if I tried to grapple with that, right now.<br /><br />There's definitely plenty to talk about on the subject, and I hope to do that once things have calmed down a bit and I'm not in "OHMYGOD HAVE TO REVIEW THINGS BEFORE JANUARY 1!" mode. That it sees apoliticism in a place that only a politically disengaged American would possibly think apoliticism is okay is, to me, beyond question.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09491952893581644049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-73174564179896345802012-12-19T22:45:17.685-06:002012-12-19T22:45:17.685-06:00While I should wait to see the film before I pass ...While I should wait to see the film before I pass judgement on it, I find it odd that some many reviewers are praising it for being apolitical. I don't really see the point of tackling such a heated real world subject and then just presenting in a faux-journalistic way. The very act of not taking a stance on the events presented is taking a stance, which hearkens to the implicit endorsement of torture Tim touched upon in the review. Why use a real world event, divorce from real world context and fashion it as thrilling procedural action yarn? It comes across as a 'touchdown we got him! wooo!' kind of way to present the material. Honestly to a non-American like myself it seems like a jingoistic propaganda piece. I appreciate that Tim judged it on its merits as pure filmmaking but I don't really get why this needed to be a feature film and not a documentary if Bigelow was going to take that route.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04634087887519608773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14812333.post-63700417686302222752012-12-19T22:26:01.946-06:002012-12-19T22:26:01.946-06:00I like that people were a bit cooler to The Hurt L...I like that people were a bit cooler to The Hurt Locker than most are also loving this movie. I think THL has some intense scenes, and a GREAT performance from Jeremy Renner, but how that thing was suddenly elevated to the unmitigated no-holds-barred Best Thing of 2009 status, I'll never know. I'm still disgusted it won best Screenplay over Inglourious Basterds.<br /><br />THAT SAID, I got high hopes for this one, and I can't wait to see it in January. Even with the torture and stuff.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12219137212221355997noreply@blogger.com